tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post5946318341342636961..comments2024-02-28T21:09:17.490-08:00Comments on Samantha Sans Dosage: NOT Your Cougar's ChardonnaySamantha Duganhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05214278596698698245noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-8897777485578033312010-04-15T18:24:30.780-07:002010-04-15T18:24:30.780-07:00Arthur--
I think there is justification for that ...Arthur--<br /><br />I think there is justification for that view--although the way I heard the explanation was a bit different. Not sure if it was just another way of saying the same thing.<br /><br />Cork, as I have heard it said by folks who study these things, seems to have some form of "breathability" quite possibly having to do with minute spaces in the cork for about three months. Whether the free SO2 breathes out through the cork or is somehow absorb by it, the explanation for why the process stops is that the compression of the cork at the time of bottling becomes complete as to its sealant abilities in about three months.<br /><br />Screwcaps never breath. The solid plastic plugs never stop breathing, etc.<br /><br />Seems to make sense as an explanation. I don't see how air seeping into the bottle would solve the free sulfur problem, but maybe the explanation is that the existence of an aerobic situation for a short period solves the problem.Charlie Olkenhttp://www.cgcw.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-13987169331472297642010-04-15T12:29:02.929-07:002010-04-15T12:29:02.929-07:00Charlie, Tom
Some have suggested that cork is als...Charlie, Tom<br /><br />Some have suggested that cork is also airtight. What has been considered to be O2 ingress with cork - *around* or *through* the cork - has been suggested to be from *within* it. That is to say, the cork itself contains a considerable amount of trapped air and that seeps into the bottle.Arthurhttp://www.redwinebuzz.com/modxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-79841484100057438702010-04-15T12:24:31.413-07:002010-04-15T12:24:31.413-07:00Charlie, Tom
Some have suggested that cork is als...Charlie, Tom<br /><br />Some have suggested that cork is also airtight. What has been considered to be O2 ingress with cork has been attributed by some to ingress *around* or *through* the cork but from *within* it. That is to say, the cork itself contains a considerable amount of trapped air and that seeps into the bottle.Arthurhttp://www.redwinebuzz.com/modxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-6087001711345386332010-04-11T19:53:36.073-07:002010-04-11T19:53:36.073-07:00Puff Daddy and Tom Terrific,
I only understand th...Puff Daddy and Tom Terrific,<br /><br />I only understand the chemistry between Samantha and me, which is clearly volatile and, from my end, filled with mercaptans.Ron Washamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10386836101202976147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-85908383494683076652010-04-11T14:04:50.401-07:002010-04-11T14:04:50.401-07:00Thanks, Tom. I found http://www.bcawa.ca/winemakin...Thanks, Tom. I found http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/flaws.htm#Reduced%20Sulphur to be particularly refreshing.<br /><br />It pretty much nails mercaptan as a form of reduction, which is also the same as fixed sulfur in the terminology of some winemakers. It is what happens to free sulfur (sulfur dioxide) under screwcap if the level of free sulfur is too high.<br /><br />Moreover, this discussion needs now to move to email if we want to continue it. I do have to point out, however, that some wine writers obviously understand the chemistry even though we are not winemakers.Charlie Olkenhttp://www.cgcw.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-76403379475977227812010-04-11T13:00:06.684-07:002010-04-11T13:00:06.684-07:00And one more that encompasses a lot:
http://www.w...And one more that encompasses a lot:<br /><br />http://www.wineanorak.com/mercaptansinwine.htmThomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-20929593135988044862010-04-11T12:45:50.104-07:002010-04-11T12:45:50.104-07:00The subjects of reduction, screwcap, mercaptans:
...The subjects of reduction, screwcap, mercaptans:<br /><br />http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/flaws.htm#Reduced%20Sulphur<br /><br />http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/winenews1214.html<br /><br />http://www.wineanorak.com/screwcap_defence.htm<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fault#Sulfur_compoundsThomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-62406872605517710722010-04-11T10:43:43.659-07:002010-04-11T10:43:43.659-07:00Sam--
When and if you get around to flashing me, ...Sam--<br /><br />When and if you get around to flashing me, I hope I don't have to share you with anyone.<br /><br />As for Tom, I don't mind debating him, but he has a bad habit of telling people they do not know what they are talking about rather than asking for explanation or of offering proof of his own position. Sorry, my love, but that kind of response will always raise my hackles because it is the opposite of respectful discourse.<br /><br />On the whole, I like his brand of curmudgeonliness. I just don't like it when it gets directed at my brand of curmudgeonliness.Charlie Olkenhttp://www.cgcw.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-45733267673302142092010-04-11T08:35:52.086-07:002010-04-11T08:35:52.086-07:00ValOTB,
Awe, thank you so much. I cannot recomm...ValOTB,<br /><br /> Awe, thank you so much. I cannot recommend this Chardonnay enough and with sweet comments like yours how could I stop writing?!<br /><br />Charlie and Thomas,<br /><br /> Um am I going to have to separate you two? If we were all sitting around a table this would be when I would either ask a wildly inappropriate question or like flash you and junk to try and defuse the situation. I love you both and that stinky little wine has long been dumped down the drain, doesn't matter what ailed it...it's dead, let it rest in peace.<br />Kisses<br />SamSamantha Duganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05214278596698698245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-32141349067228957602010-04-11T05:32:54.092-07:002010-04-11T05:32:54.092-07:00Charlie,
You have some information, but you don&#...Charlie,<br /><br />You have some information, but you don't have your facts straight.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-61546117344020490122010-04-11T04:39:47.342-07:002010-04-11T04:39:47.342-07:00My GOD, woman, I love your style, and I love a win...My GOD, woman, I love your style, and I love a wine like this. When I return from Italy this Summer, this will be one of the first Chards I will hunt down. Seriously-this is a beautiful blog. Keep writing, Sam!Val https://www.blogger.com/profile/17756024122711114873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-21158090249786010142010-04-11T00:37:34.185-07:002010-04-11T00:37:34.185-07:00Tom--
I accept that you want a different kind of ...Tom--<br /><br />I accept that you want a different kind of criticism and analysis that runs into technicality, but what you want is useless to the average punter.<br /><br />While I cannot speak for any critic except myself, we (our panels) spend so much time with each wine that we see which wines blow off and which don't. <br /><br />Finally, the problems exhibited by wines under screwcap bottled with too much free sulfur cannnot be solved by aeration. That is why wineries have resorted to the use of copper sulfate. Too much copper sulfate and you get cyanide. I gather that there are acceptable levels of cyanide, but I prefer to think that there are not. And I don't really care. In 35 years of writing, no one has asked to me to describe how much cynanide I detect.Charlie Olkenhttp://www.cgcw.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-77783116432451683052010-04-10T20:38:08.153-07:002010-04-10T20:38:08.153-07:00Wrong blog, but I'm thinkin' maybe we shou...Wrong blog, but I'm thinkin' maybe we should ask Ken Payton.<br /><br />I thought in order to reduce sulfur you added Beano.Ron Washamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10386836101202976147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-2486737945239014932010-04-10T20:21:45.732-07:002010-04-10T20:21:45.732-07:00Charlie,
I agree that the cheesy, meaty does not ...Charlie,<br /><br />I agree that the cheesy, meaty does not point to reduction. I doubt that I accused you of saying anything differently. Maybe you need to read again.<br /><br />I have no idea what you mean by "fixed sulfur" but I do know the difference between reduction and mercaptans. The former can be blown off with a few swirls; the latter requires copper sulfate. <br /><br />Of course, what I am saying here is simplified. With technical problems, you have to test to know for sure, something that wine critics never seem to understand.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-36252157140330997192010-04-10T18:04:44.514-07:002010-04-10T18:04:44.514-07:00Tom--
Go back and read again. At no point do I su...Tom--<br /><br />Go back and read again. At no point do I suggest that SO2 does anything under screwcap than become fixed sulfur. It does not become cheesy or meaty, and I have not said so.<br /><br />And I beg to differ with you about fixed sulfur. It does not blow off in a couple of minutes. That is why some wineries have used copper as a way of getting rid of fixed sulfur--or reduction as you call it.<br /><br />There is a rather famous case of a New Zealand SB that arrived in this country with a cyanide problem. The cyanide derives from the use of copper to clear the fixed sulfur.<br /><br />As to the cheesy or meaty stuff, I really do not know where it came from, but my comment about it had nothing to do with sulfur. It may or may not come from some kind of secondary fermentation or some kind of other sulfur reaction.<br /><br />That way why I specifically deferred to you when I wrote " I leave it to the winemaker"--that is you, Tom--to sort it out.Charlie Olkenhttp://www.cgcw.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-82051372434999901422010-04-10T17:00:14.315-07:002010-04-10T17:00:14.315-07:00Charlie,
Your information is inaccurate.
Under ...Charlie,<br /><br />Your information is inaccurate. <br /><br />Under screwcap, wines are more airtight than under cork. That causes oxygen starvation. If the wines were produced in such a way as to keep oxygen at bay nearly completely throughout the process and SO2 was added to the wines to further protect against oxidation, under the near air tight screwcap, the wine can undergo reduction of its sulfurous compounds (not just SO2, which is only one sulfurous compound), Reduction manifests itself as a stinky, rubber-like aroma that usually blows off in a few minutes. But cheesy, meaty doesn't seem like reduction.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-83740628833537923402010-04-10T16:54:38.053-07:002010-04-10T16:54:38.053-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-70593686791615496062010-04-10T09:57:34.474-07:002010-04-10T09:57:34.474-07:00"It has pretty well been determined that cork..."It has pretty well been determined that cork has about a three-month breathability factor and during that time, SO2 can blow off along with a few other volatile compounds."<br /><br /><br /><br />Similar to the reasons I took three weeks off. Though I did get cheesier.Ron Washam, HMWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238869156614617705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-41134710691863756812010-04-10T09:33:56.471-07:002010-04-10T09:33:56.471-07:00A major problem with the use of screwcaps is that ...A major problem with the use of screwcaps is that they do not let off odors blow off. It has pretty well been determined that cork has about a three-month breathability factor and during that time, SO2 can blow off along with a few other volatile compounds.<br /><br />Under Stelvin, etc, that does not happen. The result is that the free SO2 becomes fixed resulting in a stinky wine.<br /><br />Now, the wine is question may also have had something else going on. Cheesy sounds like the finish of ML. But no bubbles might eliminate that possibility. On the other hand, even the slightest unfinished ML that goes off in bottle will create a stink that Stelvin cannot breathe off.<br /><br />As for "meaty" that could be all kinds of things, and I will leave it to the winemaker to get further into the issue.<br /><br />The non-breathability of screwcaps has caused many Aussie makerst to abandon them for Chardonnay and longer aging reds.<br /><br />Of course, the cougar in the bottle might actually be cougar.Charlie Olkenhttp://www.cgcw.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-51065268808977988412010-04-10T08:29:47.832-07:002010-04-10T08:29:47.832-07:00Thomas,
I was thinking the exact same thing when...Thomas,<br /> I was thinking the exact same thing when I typed that. No, I don't think there was any fizz. We have noticed that some screw cap wines can trow a bit of stink when they are first opened but it blows off really quickly, this one however did not. Weird.Samantha Duganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05214278596698698245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-64361340799272795322010-04-10T08:18:51.067-07:002010-04-10T08:18:51.067-07:00Hmmm, Cheesy, meaty. Sounds like you should have p...Hmmm, Cheesy, meaty. Sounds like you should have put it between some good bread...<br /><br />Was there a slight fizz, perhaps?Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-27131735954178704352010-04-10T08:06:37.714-07:002010-04-10T08:06:37.714-07:00Sara,
Any seduction anywhere is a good thing no?...Sara,<br /> Any seduction anywhere is a good thing no?! But yes, when you can feel like you just finished being ravaged by a sexy ugly stranger in a bathroom stall from a glass of wine...it is indeed a good day at work.<br /><br />Thomas,<br /> It was kind of cheesy smelling with a little meaty smell. I don't think it was horribly off but Adam tasted it, (and he does all the time) and he could tell something had gone wrong.Samantha Duganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05214278596698698245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-7753980278633893052010-04-10T08:01:37.569-07:002010-04-10T08:01:37.569-07:00Tom--
It was metal taint.Tom--<br /><br />It was metal taint.Puff Daddynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-61768201502615651002010-04-10T06:03:01.519-07:002010-04-10T06:03:01.519-07:002007 Tissot Traminer "stinky"? Screwcap?...2007 Tissot Traminer "stinky"? Screwcap?<br /><br />What kind of stink was it?Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07322028233207741737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4819829113979242722.post-47674460919356991302010-04-09T23:00:57.692-07:002010-04-09T23:00:57.692-07:00Being seduced by wine, not a bad day at work ;-)Being seduced by wine, not a bad day at work ;-)Sara Louisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06058056977783867772noreply@blogger.com